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By Anthony Cody.

Hillary Clinton gave some idea of where she would take education policy last night at a South Carolina town hall, where she spoke of extended learning time as a key education strategy.

She said this:

There’s a lot of research which shows that, for most middle-class or well-off kids, they get out of school in the spring or early summer … and then they do things over the summer that keep them learning, A lot of disadvantaged kids get out and they actually lose some of the learning that they’ve gained during the year. So I want very much to expand the school day and the school year, and provide more structure. Starting with kids who would be most benefited from it, but I am in favor of states looking at how they might do that for every student.

As an educator, I am skeptical about this idea. In my experience, the capacity to learn diminishes as the day wears on. My afternoon classes often got less accomplished than my morning classes. As students grow weary, learning diminishes. High quality summer programs that give low income students access to some of the great learning experiences wealthier students enjoy would be great – but I would argue for programs featuring outdoor education, art and music, rather than more test preparation.

This concept is not new, however. It was actually one of the core strategies to support “turnaround” schools, which was major initiative of Arne Duncan’s Department of Education.

A 2012 report from Ed Sector pointed out some of the limitations of this idea.

The best ELT [Extended Learning Time] plans have real potential to improve student learning. But many of today’s ELT adopters, constrained by limited and temporary funds, are effectively favoring quantity over quality. And they have no plans for sustaining even their modest ambitions. The inevitable result of these shortcomings will be failure: a promising movement fades, improvement strategies falter, teachers get fed up and leave. New designs for extended time should be a part of the nation’s school improvement plans. But policymakers and school leaders must recognize that successful schools use time not just to extend hours and days but to creatively improve how and by whom instruction is delivered. In the end, the ELT movement is more likely to leave a legacy of school and student success if it becomes less about time and more about quality teaching and learning.

The problem, as is often the case with whizz bang ideas like this, comes when budget-strapped school district leaders try to make changes like this without providing adequate resources, and without engaging teachers in the design process. Chicago was a case in point. According to this 2014 reportMayor Emanuel’s extended school day program there was no silver bullet. The report states:

…longer hours (along with a pension-driven budget crisis) have created new problems:

  • Lost collaboration time. Teachers no longer must arrive 30 minutes before students do, so they struggle to find time to meet with colleagues. “There is no common meeting time, none,” said one principal.

  • Overworked students. Some teachers say the longer school day is less engaging for students. “It’s double-period English and double-period math,” said one English teacher. “How are they going to be interested in school?”

  • Lost extracurriculars. To parents’ dismay, the longer day has led some students to opt out of traditional afterschool activities. “I stopped [sports] last year as soon as the whole extended day started,” said one high schooler.

  • Uncertain value. One principal filled out the new schedule by adding five minutes to every period. A teacher responded: “I haven’t been able to get further ahead in the curriculum. There’s no way anyone can tell me kids are learning more.”

  • Overworked staff. After hiring hundreds of new teachers in the extended day’s first year, Chicago laid off almost 1,500 (along with almost 2,000 support staff) in the second year, due to the budget crunch. That’s left some teachers feeling more stressed than ever – and, according to Hechinger Report, less likely to take on extracurricular activities like coaching or drama even when extra pay is available.

So clearly, simply adding minutes or hours to the day is not sufficient to improve learning. More to the point, if schools have chosen to emphasize test preparation – which tends to work against student engagement, more of that same sort of instruction is not likely to yield good results.

But if the resources are provided to make an extended day or year lively and rich in the sorts of experiences students thrive on, then who could be against that?

Author

Anthony Cody

Anthony Cody worked in the high poverty schools of Oakland, California, for 24 years, 18 of them as a middle school science teacher. He was one of the organizers of the Save Our Schools March in Washington, DC in 2011 and he is a founding member of The Network for Public Education. A graduate of UC Berkeley and San Jose State University, he now lives in Mendocino County, California.

Comments

  1. Susan Lee Schwartz    

    So glad that Hillary is offering nothing that REAL teachers will see as a GRASP that she can save our public schools. She is in th pockets of the EDUCATIONAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX and nothing will change if he becomes president.
    http://http://dianeravitch.net/2015/10/24/the-educational-industrial-complex/

  2. Mark    

    Just what we don’t need … Another “expert” non-teacher/politician telling us what and how we should be doing. ??

  3. Perry Cecchini    

    Better ideas than Obama or Bernie

    1. Michael Paul Goldenberg    

      I see, Perry: so her open cluelessness would be better than anything Bernie Sanders would support? On what planet will that be true?

      1. Ed Detective    

        It’s called “bizarro world”

  4. jim2812    

    Yes, Susan, I agree with your typo, my concern is nothing will change if “he becomes president.” Meaning Sanders or male Republican. I fear all will unable to resist the “EDUCATIONAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX”.

    1. Michael Paul Goldenberg    

      Seriously, Jim? On what basis do you come to the conclusions, 1) that Sanders would follow the neoliberal/neocon alliances that have helped destroy public education over the last 35+ years; 2) that Shillary wouldn’t do precisely what her clueless comments in this piece indicate she’ll do, namely to follow the deformer playbook? The leap of logic you’re taking appears unfounded, to be polite. To be less polite, it appears to be an indication of exactly why I don’t trust anyone supporting HRC.

      1. debbiehaizlip    

        The problem with this proposal is that no more time should be added to a teachers schedule unless pay increases that are substantial are paid out, teachers aides reinstated, stopping the practice of withholding raises and advancement opportunities, teacher shortages dealt with and budgets fully reinstated. Charter schools are being paid too much! Their funds should not be paid on the backs of public schools.
        Hillary has shown just how out of touch she is and a total beareaucrat to boot.

  5. Randal Hendee    

    Watch Michael Moore’s new movie Where to Invade Next for a sane discussion of why these are very bad proposals. Moore invades Finland, which has the shortest school day and the shortest school year but some of the happiest kids and (using a bad metric but one that “reformers” like) among the highest international test scores. Seriously, everyone reading this owes it to themselves to see the movie and spread the word. One Finnish official pointed out that the ideas they used to turn their education system around came from the US. Unfortunately most of those ideas aren’t on the “reform” agenda. Also notable… There are no charter schools or even private schools to speak of in Finland. Rich families send their children to public schools, which helps insure equity and improves the social climate. Children of all backgrounds work together and become friends, which carries over into adult life.

    1. Suzan D Reed    

      I would hope that the lack of private and charter schools would have more to do with the parental satisfaction with the high quality public schools than anything else. Everyone likes happy, well educated children, that;s why most of the people I know have opted out of our crappy local public schools in some form or another.

  6. Amika Kemmler-Ernst    

    Hey, Anthony! Greetings from Boston! Please be sure to send this… and other Living in Dialogue posts… to Hillary and her education advisors. She is a consummate politician, for sure, but I think is better able to make good things happen than many give her credit for. In solidarity and faith, Amika 🙂

  7. Ed Detective    

    Bad idea, as most TEACHERS know. Here’s the bottom line of this story: Hillary is trying to pander to educators, but doesn’t even know what they want!

    Thankfully there’s another presidential candidate who actually LISTENS to his constituents…

  8. Linda    

    I,too work in schools as a substitute teacher and I often work with kids that can’t make it through the day now …I see morning much better than afternoon..I see the times they have now are enough for students . Keepi g children more days or more hours doesn’t help the teacher …They get 2 days off now and they have families of their own..If you extend I am afraid we will see many leave as the day is already stressful enough and students and teachers are tired by 300pm

  9. Karen Wolfe    

    This does not represent the jist of her comments at all though. In fact, it seems Clinton completely agrees with this article’s assessment: “The problem, as is often the case with whizz bang ideas like this, comes when budget-strapped school district leaders try to make changes like this without providing adequate resources, and without engaging teachers in the design process.”

    Her fuller comments say basically the same thing: “I have said I want to be a good partner for educators and teachers. But I want to help them do what they know they are supposed to do. We need better and fewer tests, not more tests. We need more support in the classroom because a lot of kids come with needs. As the reverend was saying, a lot of kids who have challenges at home, the school is the only place other than the family where they might get some additional assistance. So we need to look at this from a broader perspective.”

    What’s wrong with that?

    1. Anthony Cody    

      Karen,
      To answer your question as to what was wrong with her statement you quoted, I do not think the quest for “fewer and better tests” will take us very far. Beyond that, there is nothing particularly wrong with her bland statement that teachers should get more support. Who could disagree with that? This sort of statement is very similar to what we heard from Barack Obama when he was a candidate. We all know how that has turned out.

      I do not think this call for extended learning is anything particularly horrible. It is the sort of easy fix politicians come up with when people ask what can be done to improve education. There is enough research out there to hang your hat on, but the reality is, it is not any great innovation, and I am sure the readers of this blog could generate a list of a dozen things that would make a much bigger difference than extending the school day.

  10. Jake J    

    Just saw Michael Moore’s Where To Invade Next movie where Finland and others demonstrate that less is more, outcomes improves as drudgery goes down, kids have free play, arts sports etc.

    When the research is this clear but politicians don’t listen, it’s a red flag that they are following someone else’s agenda. Hillary is directed by John Podesta, a pusher of Ed reform, common core, charters, you name it, it sucks.

  11. Lisa Moore    

    Personally I feel that the students don’t have enough down time. Like to eat lunch. They’d been so herded through the lunch lines because of educators having to meet instructional times. The teachers would get an hour lunch and God knows they need an hour of down time. Also, why can’t sports be part of the curriculum. Extend the day and give them more enrichment, life building skills. Like community building. Ask the kids what they want to do. Let educators bring their kids to school so their classes see them being parents and nurturing one another.
    We need to start acting like we all love and care about one another. Take the time to eat nutritious and have them grow the food at school sites.
    Look at quality time, not quantity. Life is about so much more than being smart. What about just being happy!!!!

  12. Leslie    

    So. How do we get Hillary, or any candidate, to really hear us? To see community schools as an option, to recognize the real problems facing real schools, to see educators and parents as the solution- not technology and testing. Seriously. How do we educate the politicians?

  13. Jane Elgin    

    I want very much to have full funding for the time we already have. I want very much for my union to not be attacked when we expectr a voice in education policy. I want very much to spend my days in structured learning, rather than structured testing for profit. I want very much to expand services for children in poverty and their particular educational needs, who account for over half of the public education population. I want very much for politicians to stop demonizing teachers. And mostly, I want very much to have EDUCATORS leading the discussion about education, instead of non-educators who have sold us all a fictitious bill of goods in the name of reform.

  14. Thousand Arrows    

    Extended learning time? Extended my ass. When would it be a good idea to make school longer than it has been? She is way too old to be president. I’m not sexist, but i think their should be a maximum age.

  15. Kathy Olten    

    I am in touch with Bernie campaign and his record is strong in doing what is right by our teachers. He is fully aware of the $$$ in politics especially in education and what it is doing to our country. A Chicago CORE group voted to go against their Union heads and support him. I have looked in depth at his positions and researched him over time through the years. The hard part for me is realizing Hillary is truly pandering . When I dug deep into her 2014 tax return with this Trump tax return frenzy, I found out millions have been made by the Clintons via GEM and Laureate. GEM received millions in grants as outside consultants (the schools ironically did not do well under their advisement(Detroit, Baltimore, Pueblo, and others). Bill made16 million in an “honorary position” and Hillary millions on speeches maybe. They are one of the the biggest private school and consulting firms in the world (also causing issues in Britain!). Here is info with research citings-I had to go to many of the links and dig further and also look into the grants and their outcomes. Pretty concerning! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEMS_Education Encourage people to educate themselves beyond the sound bites. As all of you know, this is so much deeper than anyone of us knows. I admit, I go for the guy who chose to serve the public and be consistent, but I honor ALL of your votes regardless of whom you prefer.

  16. ibebrenda    

    The writer (Anthony of Living in Dialogue) took one sentence in a speech and gave it his own out-of-context narrative. Hillary Clinton is calling for Universal Preschool for America’s Children. Despite research showing its benefits, only about half of the roughly 8.1 million 3- and 4-year olds in the U.S. are enrolled in pre-K, with only one in four enrolled in publicly funded pre-K. FACT SHEET:https://www.hillaryclinton.com/the-briefing/fact-sheet-universal-pre-school/

    1. El Doobie    

      Providing universal preschool, with well-paid and supported teachers would be fantastic. But when she made this statement “So I want very much to expand the school day and the school year, and provide more structure.”. it was not about just preschool. If H meant that she would allow students engaging opportunities beyond regular school hours that would be one thing, but it more likely means overcrowded classes and underpaid teachers doing the same old rote memorization, and filling in workbooks. It is time for a revolution in education that involves less power to the testing, textbook industry and more power to the local community to allow their students with rich experiences and interaction with professionals in the community and learning to use a variety of tools like those used in real life professions.

  17. Christa    

    I’ll be selfish for a moment and bring in the perspective of a working teacher. My day is long enough. More pay couldn’t entice me to work longer hours than the long hours I already work. Selfishly, with all the changes made in education over the last 28 years I’ve been teaching, the only thing keeping me going is knowing I have summer and several weeks off during the year (unpaid – which most of the public doesn’t know). And at this point in my life it is the only benefit left for actually encouraging anyone to join the profession. Love for the kids can only carry a person so far. Along with all the other excellent points you all mention – there is a quality of life issue to also keep in mind.

  18. George Sheridan    

    Hillary is doing something candidates almost never do – thinking in public. She has made detailed proposals, like her plan to spend $2 billion to address the school-to-prison pipeline, changing discipline policies, hiring school counselors, etc. And she has reacted to the “corridor of shame” with suggestions. Extending the school day and year doesn’t require the same staff to do even more test prep. It could mean hiring many more art teachers to provide the experiences students from low-income families – as she pointed out – often lack. Or hiring more paraeducators to accompany students on field trips. Or community outreach specialists to involve other family members in some of those trips and experiences. How about hiring librarians and library aides to offer after-school and summer reading clubs? This is where her stated desire to work with us to draft legislation could bear fruit by allowing us to design programs to meet students’ real needs.

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